The OSINT Output Hosted by Tim and Chris

This transcript has been edited for clarity. Filler words are removed and missing context, such as information that was not initially recorded, are included. If you have any questions regarding this content, reach out to Chris or I through the contact form on this website.

Tim
Hi, listeners, unfortunately we had an issue with the recording software that we use for our guests and there are several portions of 3 seconds or more that are missing throughout this episode. We will include a transcript of the entire episode on our website at theosintoutput.com. We sincerely apologize, but we hope that you still enjoy listening to Keven as he has a wealth of knowledge on this subject. We recommend that you reach out to him on his website at ubivisproject.org that’s u b i v i s p r o j e c t dot o r g or through LinkedIn with his name Keven Hendricks. This is especially true if you have any information regarding illicit dark web activity that he can pass along to his law enforcement partners
With all that being said, Chris and I again sincerely apologize, but we hope that you enjoy the episode even with some missing parts!

Intro theme and music

Tim
All righty. Well, welcome to another episode of The OSINT Output. 

Chris
It, it’s the bonus episode. 

Tim
The bonus episode. We actually have a guest on here. I’ve known him for, oh my gosh, it’s been a while now. I think three years. He’s one of the, now, I guess foremost dark web talkers and experts in North America, and I think Western Europe now. He just recently got back from the UK. 

Chris
Did you, did you already start the timer? 

Tim
Oh yeah. You saw the timer. 

Chris
Oh, I was looking into your eyes, man. 

Tim
Again, just looking into my eyes. But Keven, thanks so much for being here, man.

Keven Hendricks
No thank you guys. Yeah. Yeah, Tim, it’s been a while. It’s been some odd years now.

Tim and Chris
Yeah, I was just talking to Chris about your work and your projects, and he said, Hey, were you gonna ask him about these specific things? And then I showed him your coins and he was like, can I have one of these? And I said, “Sure!” We got a few. But Keven, just for, just for our audience can you give us a little bit about your background, some of your education, your certifications, and what you’re currently doing? Your projects, your work, and your positions?

Keven Hendricks
Yeah, sure. So by trade I’ve been in law enforcement, I’m going on 19 years now, kind of reaching the end of…that line of work. In my tenure, I’ve had the distinguished pleasure on serving on two federal agency task forces that were combating cybercrime. During that timeframe with those tasks[my work] was heavily based on dark web facilitated contraband with the FBI focused on child sexual abusive material, CSAM, under the umbrella of [what] was known at the time as IINI, the Innocent Images National Initiative, divorced from ICAC. And then when I was with the Drug Enforcement Administration, I was with J-CODE (Joint Criminal Opiode Darknet Enforcement) groups. I was part of the operations that took place under the auspices of J-CODE. Probably around Operation Dark HunTor, and just kept going and going, SpecTor, ProtecTor, all that stuff like that. And that’s where I got the concept of InspecTor from.
But in the, um, I guess in my time or outside the standard curriculum, I founded the Ubivis Project mainly when I began to recognize the gaps that existed between dark web overdoses and the investigations or lack thereof, and the standard reporting channels that don’t exist for this, this kind of thing.
Um, when you think of reporting CSAM, you have cyber tips, which is regulated by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. You can go to IC3.gov, um, which is regulated by the FBI, all the different channels for reporting that stuff online. There really wasn’t a, I wanna say a streamlined way to report dark web facilitated narcotics [or] identities of vendors.
‘Cause for those of you who investigate this stuff, you know, your vendor name is your brand, right? You have people that, um, have been vending for a very long time on different marketplaces. Um, and that’s why myself and Erin West we spoke [about the] pursuit of things neglected or under-investigated. And that was her concept for Operation Shamrock. And, you know, Erin has done such a phenomenal job, her advocacy. And for me, you know, I hope to be the loudest voice in the room like she is. And I found it going on four years ago now, back in 2021. And we’ve done some pretty exciting things. We have had some people reach out, get cases initiated. We have some vendors through submissions that have been worked by our federal partners resulting in arrests. And, one such case, an unfortunate example of the lack of prioritization for overdose deaths in general. A mother reached out directly to me about…her son’s death that the local basically just closed it out and she felt that there was more there able to get one of the federal partners in that region to basically adopt the case.
They dumped the phone and found actionable intelligence for the narcotics he had purchased [that] ultimately led to his demise. So, yeah. And I’m also an expert in crypto, but I feel like that’s kind of a, that was kind of adjacent to the dark web. Like learn the ins and outs of the dark web, but if I didn’t learn about crypto and lockstep, it was kind of useless.
Right. Like paying for this contraband. How are they facilitating different sales of either narcotics or whatever you could think of in these illicit markets. And that’s really the same time I started learning about crypto back in 2014 was really the same time I started learning about the dark web, which was 2014. 

Tim
I think encryption and cryptography and dark web kind of go hand in hand. You can’t have one without the other even. Even if you think you understand the internet, once you get in the dark web, we don’t understand encryption. You can’t be a good investigator unless you learn it as well.

Keven Hendricks
Yeah.

Chris 
I, I mean, I casual or I appreciate anyone who just casually tosses in, “Oh, and I’m an ex expert in crypto, Yeah. no big deal.” [laughter]

Keven Hendricks
Well, and, and you know what, and I don’t wanna minimize it that way. ‘Cause I, I really I, I think that there’s people who became experts in crypto because they themselves were very much fascinated with the ones and zeros, right? The cryptography aspect, how it actually works when you start to talk about, you know, how the subtle things, these blockchains work. And for me it was like, I kind of got thrown into it. ‘Cause they were like, listen, this is a dark web and on the dark web, they’re all paying for it. With this, it’s like you really galvanize me to wanna learn more about it. Um, and you know, there’s being in the public sector and, and you know, the department, there’s like this level where it’s like, “Okay, you’ve reached it, but it’s like if you’re interested in this, that this is your forte doing it.” And that’s one of the things that, that I did.
Um, spending money. To further my education on, on the, and that’s really what take pride in is that I’ve also [seen] that passion in other people when I teach about to law enforcement, to Department of War person, to people that are investigating this stuff is like, I’m like, “This is what you’re learning in this very short period of time.” But take, like, learn about this stuff. Do your own research. Find the, just be abreast to how this stuff is changing. Tim, you and I both know, right? If I were one of the [investigators] that worked with a federal agency some odd years ago, and I, talk about how the case against the Silk Road was built, right, took place, and then we talk about the investigative techniques, they reloaded the page a bunch of times while using proprietary software, specifically Wireshark, and eventually there was exposure to an IP service in Iceland. You can’t do that anymore with the dark web. You can’t do it. That’s why version 3 onions exist now. That’s why, you know, it’s done a lot on the network to prevent that stuff from happening. You have these people that will say, “Hey, I was an expert back then. This is how this was worked.” And like, that’s great. That’s a great history lesson. It’s like, what about the dark web now? Like how, how do we, how this stuff now? And it’s just like, yeah, we’ll get back to you. Right. And um, yeah, that’s, that’s one of the things I’m like, “Look, you can [take all] these all that you can from these classes, but there’s only so much you [can learn] in that timeframe and you have to keep pursuing this stuff.”
You have to be abreast. Today’s expert is tomorrow’s historian and that’s the [thing]. If you don’t stay current, if you’re not yourself on different darknet channels seeing the trends. If you’re not monitoring what people are saying on these illicit message boards about evolving tradecraft, you’re gonna be the dust And, um, yeah.

Chris
All right. So I mean, you, you covered a whole lot in, in that, in that little spiel right there. And I wanna dive into some of it just a little bit. One, I wanna go back to the Ubivis Project ’cause I spent some time on the website and I looked at, you know, some of the reporting tips. I like the fact that if you’re not law enforcement, you can be anonymous.
‘Cause you know, the website says that you guys don’t store IPs. What are some things that people can look for? Because, you know, like I I, I grew up in a different era where, you know, we weren’t ordering drugs online, it just showed up, right?

Keven Hendricks
Yeah.

Chris
Not to give away any trade secrets. Um, but so what are some things that, you know, friends and family, members of people who have OD’d, like, what are some things that they can look for to give them indicators that this person got, you know, their drugs from the dark web and then, you know, report to try to get a case open?

Keven Hendricks
That’s actually a great question. Um, so I think we have to break our stigma that we have out there about people that are ordering drugs online…are these addicts that they’re these fiends. That there are people are…are crossing this, this bridge to the online to order their drugs. Because you know, they’re worried…in person, things of that nature. And while that may be a factor, um, everything that I want people to…is that the hooded hacker persona, um, belief that there has to be some sort of computer skills to do this stuff. That’s not true. Some of the cases I work with kids as young as 15 that were ordering these drugs online. And they were being shipped to [their parent’s house]. And you know, um, it’s not a critique on anything with the parents, but it’s like the drugs were arriving at the house and the parents had, the kids were just coming home from school and, and sniping the parcels and bringing them one of the

Chris 
The USPS is transferring all that, right?

Keven Hendricks
Yes, are one of the shipments. Um, again, not postals, you know, the culpability of the postal.

Chris
Yeah, yeah, it’s, it’s nobody’s fault. I mean, there’s a lot of legal protections in the USPS. 

Keven Hendricks
Yes

Chris
Which is why it can be used or exploited for that reason.

Keven Hendricks
And it’s the of entry to have something shipped. Um, so for the, what I have told people in the past about this is…there is there is no, um, per se warning sign out there that this person’s ordering drugs online. But, what I would want people to, to pay attention to. OK, well if you have somebody that is on [drugs], it’s like are they doing something that would give you this [impression] in some way, shape, or form, they’re up to no good online, right?
Like is there all of a sudden a added layer of protection on their computer? Are they BitLocker-ing their drive? That’s like most people don’t normally BitLocker their hard drive. Tim and I, you know, we live in a space where it’s like you better be BitLock in your hard drive, lock it down on top of that with another thing. But it’s just like. Doing something where all, all of a sudden it’s just like all of sudden, what, where did this come from? Why all of a sudden are they asking me for gift cards? Or why are they asking me for kind of these things that would be indicative of someone under a scam? Right? But it’s like for parents or [loved] ones, it’s like, could there be some behavior that all of a sudden they’re where it’s like, “Yeah, this, this just never was there before.” And one of the parents I spoke to flat out told me in the YouTube history he was watching YouTube videos about how to order drugs online on the dark web. And he was learning how to protect himself on the online and, and the dark web, and basically hardening…their device. I would say that, you know, one of the things I put out there for anybody was that you can have informed delivery by USPS, which will tell you all the parcels that are coming to your house. And if you’re starting to see these parcels, that it’s like, wait a minute, “Where is this from?” Like return address is like…it’s a smaller parcel coming from California.
It’s like I, I didn’t order anything on online. I didn’t order anything on Amazon or eBay or to…my house. Another family member who lost a loved one to an overdose from…narcotics, they had said that they had opened up a [PO box] at a UPS store right up the street. It was like that was their way, um, you know, preventing the family from knowing [drugs were] coming to the house. And this individual had said they had been clean for so long, and then the narcotics that killed [them were] delivered to the, the UPS store. So, [there] isn’t one cookie cutter..telltale sign that you’ll, you, you as somebody who see to somebody in your family, in your life…there isn’t something that’s like going to be like, “Aha! that’s there, there it is!” Usually that information comes out later, the person dies. It’s like, okay, you go on their computer.
And sure enough, the Tor Browser open at the time, which, , was, was a person OD’ed and literally the Tor Browser was open and tabs were still open about where this person was. And um, yeah, there’s usually not one thing per se from a standpoint of not being an investigator that’s a tell-tale sign. But, from a law enforcement standpoint, there’s often a lot of, of trails that are that are doing bad things on the dark [web].

Tim
For our listeners out there, what Keven just said, like somebody Googling how to sell drugs online or how to buy them. You think that’s farfetched? There’s actually a mockumentary, which is based on a true ven, which is based on a real vendor called ShinyFlakes who got started out that way. He just Googled how to sell drugs online fast, and that’s how he got this start. And worked with his friends in high school, in Germany, to build a website and he became one of the biggest offenders operating out of Germany on multiple marketplaces and on, and had his own shop. 

Chris
I, I Google stuff like that. Just ’cause I’m curious, like, I just wanna read 

Tim
[He’s] on FBI’s a watch list right here. 

Chris 
Oh, certainly. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Without a doubt. 

Tim
You got a follow up, Chris?

Crhis
Oh yes. Um, and then, , I know well first of all, thank you for talking about that and, and helping people I think, identify some of those things. And then I’ll just add in that my brother’s been paranoid about everything his entire life, so the only thing that would scare me for him is if I find out he’s not paranoid about something. Then I know something is wrong.
Um, and so we’re gonna follow up. I know you mentioned, , InspecTor. I know that that’s one of your tools for law enforcement. And then, so one of the things that I’ve heard you talk about before, and I’ll let you get into it now, is the, investigating cryptocurrency can be a daunting thing, especially for state and local governments.
So what’s one of the ways that you see that moving forward forwards? What’s one of the ways that you think that we can advance state and local governments in, in becoming better and more accustomed to it? And then,how do you see the future of that going?

Keven Hendricks
Yeah, that’s a great question and I’ll touch back on what I said about Erin West and her advocacy with the, Operation Shamrock and, and kind of spreading the word about the, this online space. um, once we. By somebody that’s a administrator of an agency, did viewed crypto as in quotes, monopoly. So they didn’t even view it as real money. They viewed it as monopoly [money] as only existing on the internet space. And raising awareness to the human trafficking, , components, awareness to all of the…sextortion, enrollment scams that end their own lives and things. It’s not necessarily about the crypto itself, it’s about what the, the byproduct of these scams that are facilitated. And I think that that’s really where law enforcement agencies on the state and local…drop the ball collectively. Is that recognizing that one – cryptocurrency in and of itself isn’t a scam. Um, are some cryptos that you know are, for lack of a better term. Or anything in those regards, but cryptocurrency as a whole is not a scam 
Cryptocurrency…en mass is not a scam. Obviously meme coins, et cetera, that are scams. Those are standard, you know, Ponzi schemes, things of that nature. Where state and local law enforcement has dropped the ball is the fact that recognize that there’s a lot more to investigate with cryptocurrency than there is with. Right. Like with cash, it’s kind of, let’s say, for lack of a better term, more anonymous than crypto will ever be. For law enforcement agencies, especially on the state and local level, view this as some sort of pseudoscience. You need to have your PhD. And…have a background in financial investigation in order to even effectively investigate a cryptocurrency case.
And that’s not true at all. Um, the blockchain explorers that are out, they’re open, they’re free. You know, there are courses offered by the National Computer Forensics Institute, the United States Secret Service about virtual currency investigations. There are training partners, non-profits, like the National White Collar Crime Center that I’m an adjunct instructor for, that teach about this stuff.
There’s just too many of [these types] training that are available from beginner all the way to the most that you could think of law enforcement can take. And it’s often not prioritized because of that viewpoint, that it’s not something that they could effectively investigate if they didn’t have some sort of. License to some software that would run their department $10,000 a year. And that’s where I would say, like the biggest failure has been, is recognizing that there are many cases that are not going investigated for that very purpose is  because they’re being reported to state and local partners. And that’s the same thing with dark web facilitated cases too. The belief that only these cases can be handled…by DEA, et cetera, HSI. That’s why I would say I…have a nexus to the dark web go under-investigated…recognized because of that belief that even if I, you know that little, what do I want to say here? What’s this? What’s this? That little morsel of information that might lead this person was buying drugs on the dark web as a state and local partner.
There’s not, and that, that is unfortunately this…as we sit here today as 2025 comes to an end. So I think that in order for there to be a real change, the perception in general about cases involved, cases involving the dark web, it needs to, needs to change. And, right, the first step to fixing a problem is admitting you have [a problem]. And, I think the metrics speak for themselves when it comes to, to crypto cases, crypto facilitated fraud, extortion, whether that’s romance scams, whether that’s believing they’re working from home, um, whether that’s people who, of identity theft, all the types of, all criminality you could think of.

Tim
One of the things I will say about most cryptocurrency software, if you do purchase it, you’re not necessarily purchasing a fantastic tool that investigates cryptocurrency. You’re actually purchasing a big database.

Keven Hendricks
Yes

Tim
So that’s one of my biggest tips that I have for law enforcement. If anybody ever listened to this, as soon as you realize you’re gonna be involved in any cryptocurrency investigation, start taking notes of every crypto address you get for a specific topic. Whether it’s scams, dark web, because eventually somebody’s gonna have to query that, and it could be something as simple as a Microsoft Excel document for your department. 
Just keep something running so you can always go back and look at that. So following up for on cryptocurrency just in general and, and this is more of a big wave top question, so feel free to answer it however you feel, Keven, but one of the questions that I always get is like, Hey, dark web’s great, but it’s kind of a niche topic.
Like people don’t necessarily get into it unless your commander, your supervisor says, “Hey, guess what? You’re the dark web expert now and you have to start taking all these classes.” So how can dark web investigations be tied into traditional OSINT investigations or other types of investigations?

Keven Hendricks
That is a phenomenal question too, because one of the cases that I often bring up is, how many times have you stopped somebody? Or there was some sort of investigation to an individual where they had a bunch of credit cards them that either did not have their name or, were just, you know, almost like blank type smart card tip cards, and they were doing things with those cards. It’s like, where do you think they got that stuff from? Right? Like, whether they themselves are carders, meaning that they’re actually chipping or, or, or, encoding the cards with information that they’re buying off of the dark and deep web. Or, they themselves are involved in some sort of network where they’re just a component of a larger thing going on throughout the state. That’s really the entry level, like encountering that type of criminality stuff… that behavior, right. You know, maybe the, there was a stolen wallet…and I think that gets overlooked as having a nexus to the dark. That’s often why these actors just constantly [get overlooked]. So the easiest way to start making money, and then we wanna talk about a nexus to the dark and fraud, [is] getting involved with carding…getting involved, [these] low risk, high reward ventures and that’s why street level criminality stuff that we don’t associate as being gangs. Right? 
We don’t associate that nature being affiliated with street level gangs, but that’s a lot of money, that’s a lot of the fiduciary backbone for these, these local criminal elements. Um, example of cases that were from street level narcotics that had nexus to the dark web was out of Brockton, Massachusetts, a vending operation known as East Side High. And these guys, had their very produced videos on YouTube under the rap moniker of my tts. And they were making, um, dark web narcotics in bulk on the dark web…also selling dark web narcotics and bulk on the dark web on a local level too. And it’s just like we, we have such a, I wanna say antiquated view, of how often these local criminal organizations work that see kind of the obvious that, you know, it’s a lot easier than we give them credit for to start being rich. Successful from just fraud or anything that’s on the dark web. Um, I think like the lowest that we’re talking about for dark web facilitated crimes is the fraud space. It’s just, it’s so out there and it’s so. And there’s so many different vendors that are jockeying for your business. It’s like, “I have 10,000 stolen credit cards for sale fresh dump in the past 24 hours”, right? And like, I’ll charge you 500. It’s like, that isn’t, that is incredibly easy with just $500 for me to start going to business for myself and making a lot of money. Or, one of the standard ways I would do it is I buy those stolen credit cards. I purchase a lot of higher end clothing with them, and then I try to sell them around the holiday time, right?
And people are buying my Montclair jacket that’s authenticated, whether on the reel or Grailed or Goated. They’re gonna be buying it, especially if I’m calling it at like 50% of the standard MSRP. And like, I have no overhead. My overhead was that $500 to buy that credit card dump, right? That’s my overhead now. I’ve purchased all my stuff and now I’m going to town

Tim
The same thing. I listen to Darknet Diaries a lot. I’m pretty sure you probably have it playing in the background whenever you’re bored as well. But, there’s two episodes I wanna bring up that are really crucial to what you just said. There’s an episode about a vendor named Oracle, the episode’s called Arya.
And he got started the same way. He was just a teenager who wanted to make fake IDs and instantly be called in a Xanax drug ring in Fairfax, Virginia. Another one was Oak Cliff Swipers in Dallas-Fort Worth area. That’s how he got started too. He bought a cheap skimmer offline, put it on a credit card pump, and within a month he had over 600 credit cards and was selling them by the boatload.
It’s that easy to get involved in criminality on the dark web, and like local law enforcement didn’t realize the scale of the operation until after they started bringing them in, interrogating them, and bringing in their compatriots as well.

Keven Hendricks
And you know what it is too? Like the reason I always talk fraud and carding is because for many [they consider it a victimless crime]. And the reason why is because, well, if your credit card is. Right. You get your chargeback from the credit card issue. Um, law enforcement really isn’t gonna…that unless that card was physically stolen from you, right?
If somebody took your card and took your wallet and then what are they gonna do? They’re gonna see that, that credit gas station to buy the pack of Marlboros, right? And then they’re gonna go there and they’re gonna pursue it that way. But your card being used on…they don’t care. And then the credit card companies just write it off…business, right?
That’s like the cost of doing business. So you have this perfect, and one of the people, probably one of the most welcome figures that started as a carder was the co-founder of Alphabay cases, right? He started as a carder. Desnake even talks about it, but he started as a carder and that’s how he built his, I like to use the term e-penis up because e-daddy and things like that.
But that’s really what it was like. That’s how he…himself down the line in becoming more and more, a dark web…dark web e-daddy. And I just think for us in law enforcement, it’s, so, it’s much more probable for us to come across a darknet facilitator than we, than we give credit for.

Tim
Yeah. With Alex, his moniker was Alpha02. And if you see anybody on the darknet, typically using the Alpha with the number that’s paying homage much to him saying like, “Hey, I’m just as good as a carder, as Cazes was.

Chris
Of, of course e-penis is known by its street name, the vape.

Keven Hendricks
Mm-hmm.

Chris
So for Luddites like me, , when, when I, when I say I’m, I’m going, I’m going dark on the internet.

Tim
[To Keven] Yeah, but you know what a Luddite is. 

Chris 
I’m, I’m just going to night mode. 

Tim
Right. Okay, good. Keven knows what a Luddite is. 

Chris 
Yeah. Yeah. So I’m just, I’m just going to night mode. Right. So I’m just turning everything dark on my screen. Um, so, you know, of, of, of course, you know, we’re, we are aware of Tor the onion router, which is probably the premier spot where you’re doing these dark net investigations. Are there other networks that you’re doing investigations and how do you get to ’em?

Keven Hendricks
Yeah, that’s, um, you know, Tor is the most traversed of all. So it’s like if you’re gonna be doing business on the dark web, you’re gonna be doing it on Tor. It’s not gonna go on some weird little fiefdom of a darknet that no one has access to, ’cause nobody’s gonna do business with you. , a case in point, and it was something that I was privy to in my time, um, with the drug enforcement…administration, was the dark net market Libertas. Libertas one day basically went online. This was like, I think, forgive me if I have the years wrong. It was late 2019 or late 2018. One of those timeframes came online and basically said, “Hey guys, there’s a reason why. The governments, I’m moving all my stuff over to I2P every, right? Like this was literally what they put out there. They moved the market solely to hosting on the Invisible Internet Project. And then they all the, , currency that they accepted on the market to solely, they like went out of business within a week.
‘Cause nobody was on I two. And then lo and behold, time moves on and then literally desnake gets interviewed by Wired magazine. True market is gonna be hosted on I2P. If you or it’s basically a mirror, you’re running a risk of exposure, you’re gonna accept Monero. And it became the most successful Darknet market of all, basically of the time before it took itself offline or who knows exactly what caused the downfall of Alpha Bay, the second. But that for me was really the time. A lot of people started talking about I2P. Um, you know, I found since 2001 I only had only ever experienced an actor that was using I2P in 2016. And it was just incredible. Um, there wasn’t a lot of content on there, and now a renaissance with it where there’s a lot more content you will find on. And, you know, the other dark nets that have, um, one such dark net that I I really admired at the time was LokiNet and the Oxen privacy station before they kind of switched over how the darknet, the nodes were hosted. There was big, I wanna say a big schism within the devs. They were…from the Oxen blockchain, which was…privacy-centric blockchain, a fork of Monero to…and it created a lot of talk amongst the devs that going to basically harpoon the entire dark. There’s just a lot more, I wanna say, ability now with a lot of blockchain-hosted domains. Think…where you can create a dark net, um, relatively easy, I wanna say. There’s ways to do it, for lack of a better term, the open network Ton. It’s a quasi darknet, a Pseu anonymous darknet. Zeronet built from the Bitcoin blockchain. That’s a pseudononymous dark net. Yggdrasil, a peer-to-peer mesh net, that’s a darknet. Um, now you have mesh net type VPNs, like, NYM nim, or name, however you wanna pronounce it. It’s kind of like a darknet, just the data not hosted on, if that makes sense.
So it’s using the same technology to obfuscate yourself online, but it’s not like any sites that are solely hosted on that network. And VPNs, like Nord, um, more VPN providers, they’re actually finding ways to have your traffic routed into the Tor network as a layer of protection for you. And then when you’re in there, you can actually go on Tor, whatever browser you want to use. It’s just so amazing to me how and how dynamic these darknets have become and how much more accessible they are…out there. That is. Probably has the same amount of usership over the past, almost the GNUnet. GNUnet or however you want to. I don’t know anybody who’s using it and,

Tim
GNU. That’s the only word I know. That is an acronym of an acronym. That’s forever. It’s like, it’s like a iterative cycle that never ends.

Keven Hendricks
But it’s funny because that one’s been around for a very long time and it’s, nobody’s using it. I think, ’cause you have to have knowledge, you have to be able to, to run commands in command line. And, but it’s just like the amount of darknets that are out there. It’s the amount of smaller, small webs, like the Gemini…Spartan protocol.
Um, even the advent of, the hyper…there’s just so much more, I wanna say fungibility…the, the data that you could have hosted on your own individual.

Tim
Yeah, I think, I think three hallmarks that typically identify Darknet is it requires some type of encryption that’s only accessible through that network. It usually requires a, a different type of software. Yeah. Also it’s usually peer-to-peer hosted. Like it’s not like a major ISP hosting these servers.
And one thing I did, I wanna hijack this a little bit ’cause I’m a major gamer, I think, and I agree with some people on Reddit. 2026 might be the year of Linux because Steam rolled out is going to roll out some hardware this year that’s built from the ground up on a Unix Linux environment. So I think we might see a resurgence in Linux operating systems, especially with Windows vibe coding, Microsoft vibe coding Windows. Now, like there’s so many issues with it. 

Chris 
I think you might see a resurgence, but, but no one else will notice,

Keven Hendricks
Well, I think the, no, because I think to, to Tim, I would say, because there’s this now, um, all this convergence of AI built into this stuff. It’s like a lot of people wanna move away. How are you gonna move away from that? Is to go to, like you’re saying, like the command line stuff, where you’re not gonna have Copilot or you’re not gonna have one of the AI, Apple, AI with you along for, in that operating system.
So I agree with you a hundred percent, that there’s probably going to be more and more interest in Linux. There’s more interest in these, um. I wanna say no commercial type operating systems that people are gonna start using. And, um, you and I both know, it’s like younger generation is more versed in computers than, I mean, I’m 41 years old. You know, I started playing on computers probably myself when I was 15, 16 years old. And now see kids that are on the computers, eight, nine years old, that are literally like playing games where they’re learning coding. So it’s important to realize that, like you said, um, probably will be a reemergence of, of Linux, of interest in these command line type operating systems.

Tim
Yeah, with, almost, I think major public schools around the entire United States, like Chromebooks are the ones that are issued, and those are built from a Linux backbone. They have an IDE running in there that you can start coding immediately and have Python already integrated into 

Chris
I’m, I’m gonna create a friends and family darknet. So I know that the drugs are good. 

Tim
That, and actually Keven, if you wanna talk about that, that’s actually something I was gonna get into as well. A, a bit of a segue is. Like, how do these vendors, like, how do they get that reputation? Like how do they know like, Hey, I need to go here to this marketplace or to this shop because I know I’m not gonna get, um, you know, investigated or law enforcement want. Basically, it’s not a honeypot.

Keven Hendricks
Yeah. Um, it’s, it’s reviews, right? There was a great book, it’s called Narconomics and, one of the things that’s touched on that book heavily is about the, of e-commerce entwined with narcotics. It’s no different than the of eBay, Amazon, et cetera. It’s like, how do you trust the, is based on the reviews. So you have these vendors around for a long time that will tout, you know, how much good. All these different Darknet markets that they have operated on were, and they are the ones that wind the sales. because. Oh, if I go on eBay and I wanna buy something and this vendor is brand [new] zero-star review, no, nothing like that. It’s like, ah, it’s going to play out well for me. But if I’m going for that has 2000 plus sales and they’re, you know, they’re, they’re on an average five, five star review, it’s like, okay, I know I’m gonna get my product 
For people buying drugs online, they’re just so used online in general that it’s no different in their daily life. Um, you know, they would rather buy online from the comfort of their home than actually go to a store. So I think it’s not a sense of, you know, personal, like, of course, you know, no bad guy’s gonna pop outta your mailbox and steal all your stuff when you go to buy your drugs on the dark web. I think it’s just, you know, the, the concept of you’re getting a product online that has had previous reviews is what gives, a sense of safety. And I can tell you that’s the furthest thing from the truth. The reason why is because dead people can’t leave reviews, right?
Like, if I take product and I die, unless you got a Ouija board, you’re not [talking to] me anymore. So it’s the concept of, okay, this has 10,000 sales. Um, you know, obviously this is probably the greatest vendor of all time, but it’s like, well, you don’t know that, you know, there was actually out of those people that left the reviews, there was 10, 15, 20 people that are dead because this product has no quality control.
They’re pressed on pills. Some of the pills are bunk, some of the pills are too hot. There’s just, I, I, I feel there’s no greater threat than belief, the safe, the, the belief of the safety, the belief of this, like you and I both know, the complacency that, that leads to a lot of the downfalls. And for a lot of people that are starting to buy drugs online, they feel like they’re getting a superior product when nothing, nothing could be further from the truth.

Tim
I think that’s one of the reasons why some vendors prefer, and even some marketplaces tell their vendors to ship them with fentanyl testing strips because self-harm reduction is actually, it’s a big community. On the dark web for sure. And that actually leads into my next question, which you kind of hit on already.
The fentanyl epidemic is really huge in the United States. And cities such as Philadelphia and Portland, like they’re the hardest hit. Even places where I’m from, right? I’m from the south. Um, where, Kentucky, I’ve lived there, West Virginia, I’ve been through, they’re, they’re the hardest hit states.
What, what advice can you give investigators in those areas where their hardest hit? And then, to piggyback off of that, we do know that other nations are responsible, for sending precursors to the United States, or that’s where the, you know, the cartels are, are getting their, material to make these synthetic opiates.
What, what’s some advice you can give the local, state, and even national law enforcement to help combat the fentanyl epidemic?

Keven Hendricks
I would say the first and first most important thing is that you with the, the, and the necessity that they deserve…not overdose deaths are viewed as medical episodes. Um, very few, um, I want to say in law enforcement that view them as homicides. And you know, that’s like changing certain states now require if there is an overdose death that some sort of furtherance in the investigation, whether that’s the seizing of the, whether that is pursuing it, um, for lack of a better laws that are akin to like a narcotics or homicide. Um, that’s what’s on the books in Pennsylvania, New Jersey. Similar statutes on a state level. But again, I think with the epidemic of fentanyl specifically and the synthetic opioids, it’s like we aren’t looking about how those drugs are distributed. We, we view them as the precursors coming from China and then the cartels do all of, you know, their bad…and then it comes to the United States. I think for the most part, we all do it as, you know, pulling over that truck full of the kilos, right? That’s like what I think is the, the wet dream of every police officer on the…you stop it and there’s the kilos fall out of the trunk. It’s like, do we view the dark web as such as a, a key component in the distribution of narcotics in the United States, and I don’t think we do. I don’t think that, and back up my state here, find me the statistics of the annual death,  overdose, overdose, death toll that’s accumulated by the, the CDC. Find me the statistics of those numbers of overdose deaths that caused by narcotics purchased off the dark web and you won’t be able to do it ’cause we’re not keeping track. Right? 
And part of the reason we’re not keeping track is ’cause we don’t pursue these cases. State and local law enforcement don’t pursue these cases with merit they deserve. And I think when, you know, you hear more often than not from families that it’s like, look, my loved one died. And it’s like no one’s being held accountable.
Well it’s ’cause your loved one was an addict. Right. You know, your loved one. You know, we all went through DARE, Scruff McGruff or whatever told us, you know, “Don’t buy drugs!” Right. And we all went through it. We came out fine. They don’t, they don’t view substance abuse the same way that someone who has a loved one that suffers from it does. I lost a very close fraternity brother to substance abuse and I lost a very close fraternity brother to drugs purchased on the dark web. And the local agency that handled that case literally…when we change the perception of it, when we change the viewpoint in a non-fatal overdose, like just an overdose in general medical event, when we view it as a, something that warrants an investigation, then things [may change]. But until then, you know, for us be, addressing the, the, that’s, that’s, that’s really important to understand that yes, syndicates that are responsible for percentage of distribution within the, the, the United States, but also let’s look at the other components of it.Like look at the fact that yeah, there’s a lot more drugs that are distributed on the dark web than… credit for. And once we start.
On what the problem is, that’s when we can fix it. And I think that the approach that the united, you know, the United States has done in buying these, cartels as as, and really saying like, listen, this is a problem, right?
Like, we, we need to stomp this out. We need to, to end the epidemic that we’re having here. Um, I, I agree with it, but I also wanna say like, and we have to view the people that are dying, you know, the end user that are dying. We have to view it too…prioritization. We have to say like, “Look, we have to find how this happened.” You could find me a serial killer in the United States that probably less has bodies than some drug dealers that have Fentanyl have, right? But we don’t view as the same. We don’t view, you know, the, the. And we don’t view the, um, the John Wayne Gacys the same way that this vendor online that might have 20, 30, 40 people that are dead ’cause of what they cooked up and sold. And then they also don’t view themselves as being responsible. They’re just, they know what they’re getting, right? I’m just trying to make money. I’m a hustler. I’m just make my money. So I think once we really have that shift to view it, I think that’s when things will really change.

Tim
Substance abuse is, is really, really neglected in the workplace. You know, one of the um, I think metrics I heard was like 10% of the people at any given workplace is, they’re alcoholics. And like being in the military, working with law enforcement and working with the people, 

Chris
I think that it’s more than 10.

Tim
I think that’s an exceptionally low number. 

Chris
It’s definitely more than 10%.

Keven Hendricks
But Tim being in the military, right? Here’s another thing, and you were deployed to, how bad is the steroid epidemic when a lot of these with these barracks is right? Like you have

Tim
Oh yeah.

Keven Hendricks
And you know, like that’s probably, if you were to ask me the entry level for actual vending of contraband online, steroids is huge.
You have podcasters, you have people that are, these figures that are openly talking about being on gear, being on the gas. And it’s like, not to go too far outside of the, the, the context of the conversation, but it’s like, know, when you have this affirmation about it, when we also have these concepts of masculinity. Like when we have that stuff, it’s creating a perfect storm. And I think that, you know, I, I wrestled throughout college and stuff. I’ve seen guys that were ongear unfortunately passed away. It’s just like, it’s something that’s so hard, but it’s so normalized. And, um, another thing, it’s like we really want to change the concept of it. Wanna create change? We have to..as something that’s bad, right?

Tim
Yeah, I agree with that. I think it’s it. It is a male generated ideal of what our bodies should look like. Because I talked to my wife and I’ve talked to other women. They’re like, while John Cena looks great there, if I had to deal with that every day, I am not sure that I would. And even the Rock, like his most recent public appearances, had to cut weight. Batista too, had to cut weight because they just realized over time what. Being on these substances can do to their bodies.

Keven Hendricks
Yeah.

Chris
Alright. So we’ve been talking about investigating the dark web and, and, and more specifically trying to exploit bad actors on there. As you go through those investigations, sometimes you’re dealing, you know, or you’re using some more sophisticated techniques.
But if you’re, if you’re not at your level, what are like some, some education opportunities or what are some some skills that you think that, you think people need to develop in order to get better at it? Other than what I think the most basic need is, is just to be curious. You just gotta be curious and you gotta keep driving.
So what are some of those things that you would recommend for people to get into either named classes or organizations or just some things that they need to work on on their own? You know, something they need to watch YouTube for.

Keven Hendricks
Well, obviously open-source is the cornerstone, OSINT and  the discipline of open source intelligence and being behind all the stuff that’s out there already on your target. Um, it very hard to be incredibly invisible online, it is really, really hard to do that. So for example, again, to touch on. in Ross Ulbricht, how that case was broken per se, to identify loss was standard Osint, right? He made a post link email. Sure enough, that’s how they were able to find that. I think to, to really to start to get into these investigations is to dispel the hooded hacker myth. To dispel it from your mind that in some way or form these actors have a high level of sophistication.
It’s often they don’t, don’t, they know what they’re doing ’cause they watch the Darknet Bible or they listen to the Darknet Diaries, or they do something like they’ve got a concept of what to do online. But more often than not, there is some trails out there. And I think the most overlooked is that, you know, that breach data that’s out there, and a lot of people have been victims of data breaches, and a lot of these people have in some way, shape or form, recycled a password and some way, shape or form, utilized email for services that might not be the most savory of services. So I think when you understand that in order for to be invisible online, like to have no sort of footprint online, you probably have to live in like…a lot of these actors have a footprint finding it, part of the way that you find it is engaging them. Um, that’s, that’s one of my favorite things to do, is to directly engage the actor. [Send them a] message, whether through the various avenue, contact them outside the dark web, right? Hey, reach me on…there’s your out telegram. That’s not the dark web. An encryption messaging service, right? Messaging them on telegram…or sending them an email. Getting that direct…you’d be surprised just how much you can from a direct engagement because you have to understand these actors want…If I’m a dark web vendor, I could be the most secure, secure conscious vendor. But if I’m not engaging people and I’m not like…customer service angle there, I’m gonna take a back seat. This, because that’s what we’re used to as consumers is that we want customer service angle of it. Um, one such vendor dealt with this dude was a paint. Like he literally Googled who he was shipping to. Well, can I serve legal notice to Google to compel a specific [IP string], right?
And the guy didn’t realize that that was there when I issued that search warrant. So again, I had to think outside the box. It’s like, I know this guy’s up, I know this messing up. And that was one of the ways he messed up. Outside of that, he was incredibly secure. I’m surprised like this…left this house like he was, he was Doordashing stuff.
This house, well like this guy, like never left, but he was so secure. Except he was like, I’m, I’m, I, I met you. I always Google who I’m gonna ship to. I’m always gonna do it to make sure that, that’s, boom, how I found him. So just understand that in some way, shape, or form, there is that avenue out there. Just we all, in law enforcement, we all wanna hit the easy button and we wanna, you know, the case broken in, in some, you know, traditional, sometimes you, you, you can’t do it. It’s, it’s not gonna happen for you.

Tim
So, this next part, um, what we, you’ve already talked about just a little bit, but, one of the things that Chris and I really, really value, in our own lives, because we’ve been impacted by it a lot, is, is mental health awareness and making sure that you’re in the correct mindset while you’re conducting these investigations.

Chris
So I’m, you gotta be ready when you’re getting out there. Yeah. 

Tim
So one of the things I do want to ask about is, is CSAM right, because I’m not asking where to go to find it, like how you can go investigate it, but what tips can you give those investigators who may just be getting into it, or even those who have done it for a while, how do they kind of keep their how to keep themselves steady?

Chris
When they come across as material?

Keven Hendricks
Yeah. Um, you know, it’s, it’s something for me that I don’t think I’m the best, I’m the best, , archetype of mental health. But, you know, I’ve seen the worst of the worst. You know, I was, I came on, components of people that were responsible for No L****s Fun and, you know these destruction and seeing those videos like that and then finding my way into the universe of the NVE groups, like the extortionist groups online, and then the whole new level of depress. And what’s also interesting is like how they idolize Peter Scott. Like they often talk about videos,  D****’s destruction, which I even hate saying because then someone, what’s D****’s destruction? Let me look this. Something that’s kind of become lore.

Tim
Yeah.

Keven Hendricks
I think that the thing to realize is that you’re doing, doing, very few people want to do. It’s, it’s reliving, you know, living for, for these victims of, of CSAM if somebody views that.
It’s like, it’s relived, right? Like it’s happening again. understand, like, that’s like what CSAM is like, it was an event in some way, shape or form that gets relived every time they watch it, it. So it’s like you’re trying to really, I. The worst of the worst. Like, put, put, put out, out…the worst of the worst.
And, um, I think that something you have to keep yourself in check. And we developed this um, gallow’s humor as they call it, where, you know, it’s like, for guys that I’ve worked with, no matter I worked with and this stuff, it’s just like we have kind of have that sheer trauma bond almost, where it’s like, you know, you’ve seen the worst, you know, you stared into the abyss, it does stare back ’cause it does take its toll on you.
Like, I just having three children myself, it’s like, sometimes just creeps up on you where it’s like, oh, it’s like that video. I, I, I did, I watched that somebody was, um, sharing. The age of my youngest. Right. it’s just like, it hits you differently. And, um, I would say especially for us in law enforcement working in it, yeah.
When, when it starts to become too hurtful for yourself, that’s when you gotta step away. And that’s when you gotta realize it’s like, even though you might be the best as like, you might be the Derek Jeter of CSAM investigations online. You’re, you’re this job isn’t forever. You know, like, you know, the uniform comes off as quick as it went on, and you have to be, you, the person at home and you have to be that person for your family. And, um, yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s what’s most important.

Tim
I’ve been in first responder circles for over a decade before I got into dark web investigations, and I thought I had, you know, a sense of humor that other people can’t take until I met dark web investigators and I’m like, you guys, we are now, we’re a different breed when, when it comes to top of jokes that we tell, 

Chris
I, I do wanna highlight that, it’s, it’s important, what Keven said is you have to recognize when to step away from it. Because it, I mean, even sometimes during investigations, you just, you gotta get up and walk away once you realize that you’re having those alert or visceral reactions to things. One, it makes your investigation poor if you’re there and you’re angry and you’re upset, , and you’re not in a, a head space that you can focus.
And two, it doesn’t help you when you walk away from it. So you gotta get away from it. You gotta reset mentally because it’s not fun stuff to look at. And it’s not fun stuff to come across when you’re looking for other stuff, when you’re looking for drug vendors and stuff. 

Tim
For those, doing this work again, we love it. Well, thank you for doing it because it’s something that a lot of people can’t do.

Keven Hendricks
No. And you know, it’s, I, I don’t know if, like, when I say I’m not the archetype of mental health. I’ve seen the worst of the worst. That for, you know, my e-penis being so huge, say it where.

Chris
His vape.

Keven Hendricks
Yeah. I, I, seen the videos from No L****s Fun, not even the ones that were like not out there in the open. Also seen what a lot of the online speakers consider the Holy Grail, which is infant. I’ve seen those. It’s stuff you can’t unsee. So it’s just like understanding that it’s like what for you [as a person] when you, when it hits you, if that makes sense, where it’s like all of a sudden it’s like, you’re so used to it. It’s like you need to realize it’s. are supposed to be angry, you are supposed to be disgusted. You are supposed to be infuriated that not only does the investigating look at this stuff, but that it exists in the first place, that there’s people that are seeking it. So just under that, it’s okay to get angry. It’s okay to be, you know…but once you hit that point where it’s like, ah, it doesn’t phase, it’s like, now not saying that something’s wrong, but it’s like you need to probably take a step back and be like, why is this not phasing me anymore if I completely or mentalize it to the point where it’s unhealthy? Have I done things, you know, or, or, um, or feel no one should have to look at. And now I’ve been in that circle and like, have I now just put myself in this corner and I’ve kind of shut off this part of my brain to the rest of the world. And very, very important. I’m glad you asked me, but I’m not the, I’m probably one of the bigger offenders

Tim
Okay. Yeah, we definitely don’t wanna.

Keven Hendricks
No, but it’s true. It’s like, for me it’s, , you know, speaking at the ICAC conference where I’ll be next week, you know, I’m talking about groups that, you know, don’t deserve to even be mentioned anymore, like 764. And it’s just like breaking that down for people that have often viewed this stuff where it’s like they never really, never really experienced it.
They’re only seeing what they’re seeing on, on the news and stuff. It’s like, well, where does this stuff all come from? And it’s like, you know, envisioning that there is this evil person behind the keyboard and it turns out to be a high functioning 15-year-old autistic kid. And it’s just like, well, where’s this monster? Right? Like, where is this, where is this final boss? I envisioned at the end of the tunnel. It’s like, nope, just some, some kid who was doing it for the LOL, you know, that’s even more of a mind blow for some people.

Chris
All right. Doing it for the LOL. Um, all right. So we’re gonna, we’re gonna transition here. And this is one of my, my favorite questions that we ask during every interview. Um, like, what’s some of the work that you’ve done that has caused you the most pride? Like, what’s some of the most proud things that you have done?

Keven Hendricks
Yeah. You know, I think the, you know, putting somebody away for a prison for what they’ve done, obviously that’s like the, the goal of law enforcement to hold people accountable for their actions when they break the law. But for me, some of the proudest things personally…the people I’ve inspired to teach or this, this topic more. I’ve had people that have taken my, classes, enforcement, are taking some sort of webinar I’ve done online. ‘Cause I have a lot of content that out to me. You’d be like, “Hey, it was watching you, inspired to pursue this stuff more.” “I’m like, that for me is…” because came through the learning of this at a time when, you know, first dark web training I ever went to may or may not have existed at a higher classification.
And I may or may not have been able to talk about it after I took it. it’s like now to have it where you literally could watch a, a video or something and you see me and it’s like, boom. Like me talking about what galvanized you to want to pursue it more. Like, that’s important for me. Um, but, you know, I, kind of, I’ve kind of lived this duplicitous life in the sense where I take pride in the law enforcement aspect, in a lot of the cases I’ve investigated. But it’s like, to me, is something that like, has much more of a longer impact where maybe I’ve inspired the next me, you know, maybe I’ve inspired a person that’s going to be starting something akin to the Ubivis Project, starting something like Erin did with Operation Shamrock, you know, the people that are going to be the change about it. And, um, you know, I think that is probably for me, one of the most rewarding aspects of my, my career on both sides of the fence.

Chris
I’m, I’m glad that you brought up inspiration ’cause that’s important for everybody. So I was doing some reading and you went to Montclair State University in New Jersey with Rocky, the Red Hawk. By the way, that’s, that’s the mascot there. As I’m sure you know, probably about 30 years before you went there, Bruce Willis went there and I’m assuming that you got inspired to get into law enforcement because of B Willie and his movies.

Keven Hendricks
Yes. Yes. Bruce Willis went there for like one year. Like, that’s what’s funny about it is um, Bruce Willis like went to Montclair State for like a year and we joked that like the year he went there, he ate food at, he ate the food at, at the, cafeteria and like Bruce Willis did go to Montclair. Yes, that is true. So ‘cause my [inspiration to get into law] enforcement is, you know, I had seen Die Hard. I had seen those movies growing up, but when I, I actually was pursuing archeology, um, maybe ’cause [Harrison Ford] inspired me more and I literally was at the point…final semester where I had the, on an archeological dig, in South America. I’m not taking it. And the reason why was because I…at the same time that movie came out, that horror movie, like did that and then like they got like some sort of disease and were killing each other. Honestly.like it’s, , one of those horror movies from the two thousands or mid two thousands that no one remembers anymore. But yeah, I, I kind of came into, my father was a public servant. He, he was [in a] law enforcement adjacent position. He worked [in] weights and measures. So, um, you know, he [did] 36 years there and, you know, graduating, it was one of those things where it’s like, what do I really want to do with my life? Yeah, I wound up, , I wound up pursuing law enforcement. And now kind of full circle. Now I’m at, I’m at the, I’m at the end of my career 20, almost 20 years later. I do right now. Now I have to get a real job, like in Ghostbusters. I, I worked in the private sector and they expect results. Right?

Chris
Yeah, so you’re, you’re saying that Harry F inspired you more than be Willie.

Keven Hendricks
Well, you know what it is, I think with, ’cause I’m a, I’m actually very religious person. Um, I’ve been Roman Catholic my whole life. Actually, I record this on a Sunday. I went to church earlier this morning. And, um, I think it was kind of that combination of the mythos of religion, like encompassed action and then also fighting the Nazis, right?
And fighting the evil. Like, that’s kind of like what I, I, I guess it’s about the truth, you know, like that’s archeology is about historical facts and like finding the, the, the truth. Yeah, for me, you know, I just wound up into law enforcement and probably the best thing I ever [did].

Tim
So these last few things we have are all about you. So, even though we’ve been talking about you this entire time, so one of the things we’d love for our listeners to know is where can people find your work, which you’ve already talked about the Ubvis Project.

Keven Hendricks
Yes.

Tim
Are there any places you would like to direct them? Because we are going to include your socials in our description for the podcast or anything else. And anything you want to end with,  at, for this interview.

Keven Hendricks
Yeah. Um, you know, a lot of my stuff is out there. If you just Google my name, but K-E-V-E-N. ’cause a lot of people Google it, K-V-I-N Hendricks. Maybe you’ll come across my stuff and maybe come across someone else’s stuff, but a lot of my content’s out there in the open. Um, a lot of the things I’ve been quoted in, in, more mainstream media, like the Wall Street Journal. A lot of that stuff you could find out there. Um, the Ubivis Project, stop dark web drugs.com either or will take you to the same site. And, I, I do a lot of conferences. Um, I will be at the Florida, um, December 15th through the 17th. 
Um, but I’m always available, especially if, you know, you’re kindred spirit in this space, um, wanna reach out, I don’t bite. Um, and like to engage with people that are…same space and also, you know, they also take pride in that because just so much gatekeeping that took place when I was coming through no one wanted to answer your emails. People just like treat, know, like, there’s a sketch from SNL that Jimmy Fallon used to play Nick Burns, your company’s computer guy, where full of themselves like move, like when anyone had a problem on a computer. And unfortunately, um, I dealt with that when I was coming through. , learning about this stuff I always hated that.
Like I never, never enjoyed that. I always thought that there was no need for it. So that’s one of the things with me is like, you know, I’ll, I’ll always be here to help you out and, and talk to you. Something where, you know, like some people have reached out to me ’cause they to this stuff and they felt like there was a little bit more there, I’d be happy to, to try to see what I can see and hopefully I’ll get some justice for your loved one.

Tim
Totally back up your comment about being really approachable. When I met Keven, it was 9:00 AM when the conference was starting. He just showed up and the very first thing he said, Hey, if you wanna meet me later, after dinner, I’m gonna be wearing a bright green blazer. It was an all green suit, and he looked like a leprechaun.
’cause it was just, you could see him over. Well, that’s my people, that’s my people having the most charismatic, , conversation with everyone. Everyone went to his table and walked away smiling. So he is a fantastic individual.

Keven Hendricks
Thank you

Chris
I I, I want to add, I, I wanna say thank you for being here and sharing, your story, your tips, your advice. And then I’ll say, are there, like, what, what final thoughts or parting words do you wanna offer to us and our audience as we get ready to sign off?

Keven Hendricks
If you haven’t been on the dark web, just go on it. That’s what I’ll tell you. You know, just please go on it if not for your, your own, your, just for your own peace of mind. I don’t want people to have this vision of the dark web being something it’s not. Like I don’t want people believing that it’s all bad stuff.
‘Cause it’s not all bad stuff. It’s important to understand that there’s a lot of countries around the world that censor their internet and that’s what the Tor Project is about at its core is internet freedom. Now of course, you’re gonna have bad actors on there, 100%. Anywhere where you have something where you’re talking about…anti-regulation, there’s gonna be bad…web, the, the more we understand that this isn’t all bad…afraid to go on it, that’s when we will truly begin to break the stigma that exists that in some way, shape or form, anyone bad actor on the dark web is a hacker. Anyone on the dark web is untraceable. Anyone who’s a bad actor on the dark web is, is clearly, you know, the, the Apex case. And I think for, the general perceptions of the dark web that emboldens these..that, you know, emboldens them to believe they could get, they quite frankly are. And I, I think in law enforcement, we need to do a better job of recognizing access to the dark web, not being afraid to work those cases…federal partners, um, to help these people. Drug vendors, but you know, all types of bad actors on the dark web because they are, they are humans. You know, they’re, they’re not these hooded figures in Latvia, Estonia. You know, the, they are actors that can be caught. And we start to traverse the dark web and our own, understand that you don’t need 17 VPNs running at the same time.
And, you know, a Linux running environment and things of that nature. Just again, once you dispel those misnomers, and you traverse it, that’s when you’ll, you’ll be like, oh, bad. And it’s not hard to get on. And now I understand why. 

Tim
Thanks so much Keven, I really appreciate you being on, man. Again, always a pleasure hearing you talk, meeting you as well. Anything else, Chris? 

Chris

No, I just wanna say thank you. 

Tim 
But anyways, thanks for listening guys. Feel free to comment on this content if you’d like to hear more, like, subscribe if you want to hear more content, but this has been The OSINT Output with Chris and Tim. 

Chris
Tim and Chris.